The Betfair Poker Interview: Nathan Williams

Poker News / Short-Stacked Shamus / 17 February 2012 / Leave a Comment

Nathan Williams has played over 6 million hands of online poker.

"There’s just so much ego in poker. I mean, I try never to look at it, but anybody who’s ever been to my page on Poker Table Ratings, you can see the amount of hate because I’m playing the microstakes [laughs]. But I guess I just got over that at a certain point and recognized that a lot of people honestly do play these stakes."

When it comes to low or "microstakes" online poker, Nathan "BlackRain79" Williams of Vancouver, Canada may well be the most experienced player around. He's played more than 6 million hands of online poker, with full ring NL2 and NL5 his most frequently played game and stakes.

Such a wealth of experience at the micros has not only earned Williams a handsome profit -- greater than one might think possible at such limits -- but has made him an authority of sorts on these stakes as evidenced by his coaching, the instructional videos he's made for DragTheBar, and his strategy book Crushing the Microstakes which I reviewed last week.

This week I had a chance to talk with Williams about his background, his poker career, the book, and other topics.

Short-Stacked Shamus: First of all, congratulations on the book which I enjoyed a lot and I really do think fills a void as far as poker strategy texts go. How did you get the idea to write a book aimed primarily at microstakes players?

Nathan Williams:. Thanks. I make a lot of videos at those stakes for DragTheBar, so I figured if people are going to watch videos for those stakes maybe I could write a book and people would be interested, too. And so far it has worked out.

SSS: It seems to me there must be a huge audience for microstakes-level strategy, given how many players -- both recreational but also more serious-minded -- pretty much stick to those stakes. I wonder why there aren't more books or people making videos for players playing these limits?

NW: I asked that same question of Hunter [Bick], the CEO at DragTheBar. When they hired me to make videos at these limits, I asked him why other instructional sites don't seem to target these stakes. He told me that even though there is a huge player pool at these lower limits, they are the least likely to want to commit to put money down on a poker product.

SSS: Ah, that makes sense. Those playing the micros are going to be hesitant to spend money for strategy help. Or at least will be very judicious when they do.

NW: But you're right, if you look at PokerScout you see these are the limits where most people are playing, so it's kind of a pure numbers thing, eventually. If this amount of people are playing these games, if you do put out a product [for them] I think you're going to get sales.

SSS: So let me ask you a little about your background. In the book you explain how you studied history and philosophy in school and graduated in 2003. Where did you go?

NW: I went to Simon Fraser University here in British Columbia.

SSS: Any favorite periods of history or philosophers that stood out for you?

NW: The first philosophy class I took was in metaphysics and we studied the pre-Socratics, and that really got me fired up. And then later I took a course in existentialism and studied Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, and others and they really influenced me a lot. On the history side, I really loved ancient history as well as the Middle East which is such a hot point, always and to this day, in international affairs.

SSS: You also tell us in the book about how you worked for a while, during which time you also began to play online poker, and eventually were able to quit and play full-time in 2007. What sort of work did you do?

NW: I had a lot of different jobs working at Sears, in construction building houses and factories... basically any entry-level, menial crap job, I did it.

SSS: Turning to the book, one of the things I really like about Crushing the Microstakes and your approach to providing instruction to NL2 and NL5 players is the way you talk about playing these stakes without all of the qualifiers or any kind of embarrassment about taking these stakes seriously. I really appreciate that -- that idea that there's no shame in saying your playing the micros, and that you're wanting to talk seriously about how to do well at these limits.

NW: I think there are a lot of people out there who share that same view [that there's nothing wrong with taking the micros seriously] but who just don't say it. There's just so much ego in poker. I mean, I try never to look at it, but anybody who's ever been to my page on Poker Table Ratings, you can see the amount of hate because I'm playing the microstakes [laughs]. But I guess I just got over that at a certain point and recognized that a lot of people honestly do play these stakes.

SSS: And in truth, a lot of poker involves understanding yourself and being willing to look at yourself honestly. And hopefully we learn to do that and not feel that pressure to present ourselves as something other than what we are.

NW: I think it probably comes down to personality a lot as well. I don't gamble on anything else. I played a sports action ticket once in my life... I'm not really a gambler. I think some of those who criticize lower-stakes players are guys who can't play below NL25 because they like action a lot and believe it would be a waste of their time. And a lot of times they're going bust continually and maybe in some cases they'd be better off playing lower stakes and learning a bit more, but there are always going to be those gamblers who look down on the lower stakes and not understand why people play them.

SSS: So do you still put in a lot of volume at the micros?

NW: I'm trying my best. There's been so much with the book and my coaching requests have increased since the book came out, so actually the last two months are the first in a while that I haven't played 100,000 hands or more per month. I've also been experimenting with playing fewer tables, too. But yes, this year I've been playing NL2, NL5, and NL10.

SSS: Let me ask you just a couple of questions about items you touch on in the book. Early on you divide players at these stakes (NL2 and NL5) into three groups: the regs (which include nits and tight-aggressive players), the fish (which include maniacs, too), and a group you call "SLPs" for "semi-loose passives." Talk a little bit about that third group, which might be kind of unique to the microstakes or at least a group we find more often at these stakes.

NW: I often wonder if I made that term up or not. I noticed a lot of these guys who are not playing tight but not loose either, which is why I call them "semi-loose." They are playing too many hands. You should probably not be playing more than 20% of your hands at a full-ring table, and these guys are usually in the mid-20s or low-30s. And they'll have a low preflop raise percentage, too, say 8% or so, which usually indicates they are a passive player -- there's a big gap between their VP$IP [Voluntarily Put $ In Pot] percentage and PFR [Pre-Flop Raise] percentage.

SSS: Okay. So both "semi-loose" and "passive."

NW: Right. And usually a good rule of thumb in poker is that passive pre-flop equals passive post-flop. And, of course, aggressive pre-flop is aggressive post-flop. So I think a lot of these guys could come from live poker, where it is a little more limpy, or they are recreational players who might have read a couple of books and so aren't just in there playing like goofballs and blasting their money off. They are serious, but also play a lot for fun probably and generally do lose a little bit over time.

SSS: To address another of your groups, there's an idea you bring up at the end of the book that I like a lot -- "fish psychology." You put certain ideas under that heading to help describe what the fish are doing, and I think that's really helpful, actually, to try to recognize the reasons why the fish are doing what they are doing as a way of both identifying them as fish and figuring out how to play back at them.

NW: You're right, there is definitely a pattern to their play. If it were just pure chaos, it would be hard to make a game plan. Someone explained to me once about how a lot of people who play poker might be successful at other things, like in their business or other ventures in life -- they are not idiots, in other words -- but they just might not understand the correct play in each situation at the poker table. But yes, there are definitely thought processes going on, for sure.

SSS: As a coach, what would you say would be the biggest mistake you see your students making?

NW: I would probably say not betting enough for value with their good hands and overplaying marginal hands. Probably more so the latter, taking a hand like A-Q or something that you flop top pair with and firing three barrels against a nit who can only have a set, basically. That kind of thing -- playing way too big of a pot with a one-pair type of hand and not recognizing the type of player you're up against.

SSS: So the mistakes come more frequently after the flop.

NW: Right. A lot are playing a winning range of hands -- from 11% to 18% -- and so their pre-flop decisions are okay, but they become either too passive or too aggressive post-flop.

SSS: So what's next for you poker-wise or writing-wise?

NW: I'm not looking to be a full-time coach or anything, but my goal is to continue to do a mix of playing and coaching. I don't want to be the guy who never plays anymore. I'm not sure where my own poker career is going, but as I said I'm trying to get away from the mass-tabling approach and really focus on short-handed games and game selection. And I have other business interests outside of poker I want to focus on as well.

Much thanks to Nathan Williams for taking the time. Click here to find out how to pick up a copy of Crushing the Microstakes. You can also find more useful advice from Nathan regarding how to improve your win rate at these stakes on his blog and via his videos at DragTheBar.

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The Betfair Big Interview: Paul McGinley

The Open / Ralph Ellis / 11 July 2011 / Leave a Comment

Vice-captain, captain and prodigy. Paul McGinley shares a joke with Colin montgomerie and Rory McIlroy at the last Ryder Cup.

"He is an extraordinary young man, and he does have the talent to be as good as Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus, but he is nowhere near that yet. He still has a lot to prove, and I think in Rory’s interests, and everybody’s interests, it would be good if everybody stood back from putting this crown on his head and just let him get on with it."

Paul McGinley is backing Lee Westwood to land his first Major at The Open this week. Betfair sat down for a cup of coffee and a sandwich with last year's Ryder Cup European vice-captain to talk about what to expect, well, at Sandwich . . .

Hi Paul. If we're talking about the Open we can't start by discussing anybody but Rory McIlroy, can we?

I know. There's a massive expectation now on him, and to be honest I think he's been over-hyped in the last month. He is an extraordinary young man, and he does have the talent to be as good as Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus, but he is nowhere near that yet. He still has a lot to prove, and I think in Rory's interests, and everybody's interests, it would be good if everybody stood back from putting this crown on his head and just let him get on with it.

He wasn't with you at Castle Stuart. Colin Montgomerie said he should have played another tournament before The Open. What's your take?

I don't know, I've not talked enough with him. I know he's played well the last few Major championships by playing very little beforehand, and at this moment in time it seems that's his best way to prepare. In three or four years he may have a different opinion, but at the moment it seems to work for him.

He seemed to enjoy his downtime. He was at Wimbledon a couple of times and looked relaxed.

He'll be coming to Royal St George's with a huge amount of confidence for what he did at the US Open, but it is a totally different exam paper at The Open, completely different. It's like going from science one week to doing mathematics the next. Completely different skills will be required to mastermind his way around a links course.

Tell us more.

Well you're talking about a running course, compared to Congressional. That's very much in the air and very little on the ground, whereseas on a links sometimes you need to bump and run the ball. Of course he's well equipped for links courses, he grew up with them in Ireland and had a lot of success as an amateur; he also did well last year at St Andrew's before that one horror round in tough conditions. So it's not he hasn't got the skills, but you have to hone them. It's like a tennis player going from clay courts to grass.

The Ryder Cup was a great week for everybody involved. You must be proud of how Rory and all the European players seem to have gone on individually since.

I think the Ryder Cup has been a huge thing for the European tour for a number of reasons. It underpins the whole financial stability, a lot of our business is constructed around it. But it also provides the platform for the players who play in it to go on as individuals. I've no doubt that without the successes at the Ryder Cup we wouldn't have had the flurry of Major winners and big performances that we've had in the last few years. To give you two examples: ever since, somewhat controversially, Ian Poulter got a pick to play at Valhalla his game has moved on. He played fantastically well under the pressure of Valhalla and that was a springboard for him going on to a completely different level. The second is Luke Donald. The way he played in the Ryder Cup last year and since then he's become world number one

He's clearly on form too after winning in Scotland. Everybody will say he has got to win a Major now to justify his status, though. Where are you on that debate?

I'm not as black and white about it. I think a career can be defined in a lot of ways. It's not just about winning Major championships. I know that isn't a view that a lot of people have, but I think Colin Montgomerie for example has had the most fantastic career. He hasn't won a Major, but in my view his career hasn't been defined by that. He's won nine Order of Merit titles, he's been a stalwart of the Ryder Cup and won more than 50 events worldwide. Would you prefer that kind of career, or would you prefer to have a career with somebody who just turns up and has a good week in a Major and wins it, which a lot of guys have done, but doesn't do too much else? Majors are important, but I don't think they define a golfer.

Tell us about the course in Kent. Who will it favour?

I think all the European based players. It's a matter of time before there is a flurry of European winners, we had a South African last year, but don't be surprised if a European wins it soon. Our golfers are dominating the world rankings at the moment and that's not a coincidence. They are playing the best golf.

Donald was certainly on form in Scotland - and Lee Westwood too

It was a shame about the weather, but it was great for the tournament to have those quality players and good preparation for them too. It's the right course for the week before The Open

You had a good few days

I hope things are coming together. I had a bad weekend in France the week before and that was very disappointing. It's been a staggered year for me so far, I've missed a few tournaments with injuries and scheduling, and not been very well and other issues, so I've not really had a flow. But I've played three weeks now, and although I didn't qualify for Royal St George's I'm off to the Indonesian Open and feeling much better. I just need to up my competitiveness and stay injury-free.

Indonesia? You'll have to take your own clubs with you!

Ha! You're talking about my new business venture clubstohire.com. We've got branches in Faro, Malaga, Gran Canaria, Dublin and Edinburgh where people on golf holidays can pick up top of the range clubs for less than it costs to take their own on the flight. It's been going really well.

How did you think up that one?

On tour one of the caddies does a service where he drives a big van and you pay him 50 Euros to put your clubs in after one tournament, and when you get to the next they are there and waiting for you. It saves so much hassle at airports. It struck me something similar would be good for amateur golfers. We had dinner in a nice restaurant with a couple of friends and a bottle or two of wine and the whole thing flowered from there.

Wish you luck with it, and in Indonesia - and we've a free £50 bet in aid of a favourite charity to say thanks for your time

That can go for CLIC Sargent. They do a great job helping families of kids with cancer. And as I'm not playing at Royal St George's there's nothing to stop me backing Lee Westwood to win at [12.5]. I think his level of consistency has been great, and I think it's only a matter of time. He's a great driver of the golf ball and that will be one of the key skills this week.

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Betfair Big Interview: Tyson Fury

Boxing Betting / Ralph Ellis / 21 June 2011 / Leave a Comment

One of British boxing's brightest prospects - Tyson in action

"I’ve always felt you have to take risks. If you take hard fights you learn quickly."

What will it be like for David Haye to get in the ring with Wladimir Klitschko? Britain's youngest, brightest heavyweight prospect Tyson Fury should know after sparring with the IBF, WBO and IBO world champion. Betfair went to see him to find out . . .

Hi Tyson. How's your preparation to meet Dereck Chisora going?

Really good thanks. The adrenalin is starting to kick in. The fight's on July 23 but to be honest I'd get in the ring with him tomorrow if I could.

It's a big step for you to fight for the British title at just 22. Heavyweights are not normally so young.

There's an old saying that if you're good enough you are old enough. I could have taken easier fights and spent longer fighting bums to build up a record like some people do, but I've always felt you have to take risks. If you take hard fights you learn quickly. You have to work with and against the best you can

Is that why you went sparring with Klitschko?

It was a great opportunity. It was in November and I'd worked with his trainer Emmanuel Steward. He asked me if I'd like to go to Germany and I couldn't turn that down. It was inspiring seeing how he worked

Did you get hit?

Thankfully not by one of his big shots. I managed to keep out of the way of them. It wouldn't matter what protection you had on - if he caught you with one of those big ones you'd know. It was a good experience, and gave me a lot of confidence to work with a top guy like that.

What are his body punches like?

Hard, but then to be honest, in heavyweight boxing if you get hit with anybody's punches they all hurt and the damage they cause . . . You are talking about blokes who are 17 or 18 stone, you are gonna, if you get punched flush in the face off anyone that size, it is going to hurt. You can't take too much notice of that. My dad always said that if you can feel a shot and think: 'This guy is a hard puncher', you are in there. It's when you don't feel a shot and you wake up on the floor that you know they are a phenomenal puncher!

How will Klitschko be preparing?

He will be training really hard and will have all his conditioners and doing lots of swimming and stuff. He's always in great shape anyway but he'll be training really hard for this one

Does he have a big team around him?

Yeah, there are lots of people, his own chefs, his conditioners, his stretching people, everything. He's got Emmanuel Steward out there too so it's all good.

You worked with Emmanuel. Tell us about him.

He's a lovely feller, a great guy, it was a really good experience to be out there with him. I was there at the Kronk Gym, a brilliant atmosphere, everyone got on in the gym and it was just fantastic training.

Will he be doing technical stuff with Wladimir, or is it more mind games?

It's both, a lot of technical stuff and a lot of talking as well which helps. Fighting is in the brain as well as the fists, you have to get your tactics right and be measured.

That will include thoughts about the size difference for Haye then. People argue he is not a true heavyweight. What's your view?

He is small for a heavyweight, but funnily enough I've just been watching tapes of Larry Holmes v Michael Spinks. Spinks was only a light heavyweight coming up to the top and he's done ok so I don't think size is the only factor. If you are good, then you are good. Full stop. They always say a good big man will beat a good little man, but Larry Holmes was a good big man, and Michael Spinks was a good small man and he unified the light heavyweight division, didn't he? It's what happens on the night. My personal opinion of the fight is that I think Klitschko has been there and done that. He's fought a lot of people like David Haye, around the 6ft 2, 6ft 3 mark who punch hard, fast people like Eddie Chambers, and I think that Klitschko will deal with him quite easily.

Our market says Wladimir inside the distance is the [2.34] favourite? Is that right?

Well, we don't know what will happen, and it does depend on which Klitschko turns up for the fight. If it's the negative one, who wants to win on points, then he'll win on points, but if he goes out and looks for the knockout then he'll probably win by a knockout. Either way I can't see it being anything but a win for Klitschko.

What glimpse did you get of his mentality?

He's got a strong mentality. He doesn't let things get to him much. The way to beat him would be to get to him and make him come out swinging. Then you have more chance. If you play it easy and don't upset him he will box away easy at the same pace.

That's been Haye's tactic to upset him, going right back to the T shirt with his head severed. Did that overstep the mark?

That's one of those things, everyone to their own. It's got him the fight, hasn't it? It's a unification heavyweight fight that the world hasn't seen for a decade, since Lennox Lewis fought Evander Holyfield.

It makes it the glamour division again?

I think David Haye is great for world boxing and especially British boxing because he's got the charisma, he's good looking, he's got the power, it's like all drama. It's bringing the glory days back for boxing and he's doing a brilliant job.

A bit of a good example for you then?

In those ways, although I'm a totally different fighter to him. His career will be shorter than mine because I think I can stay at the top. I'm not trying to be funny but I think this is the start of my era, after David Haye and the Klitschko's have gone, which won't be too long. In another 18 months when I am ready to fight for a world title they will be either finished or retired, and bar them I don't see too many out there. You have Chisora that I'll handle soon, and maybe a rematch, Robert Herenius and that's about that.

We like your confidence.

You need it, but I'm grounded too. I'm working hard. In Britain I'm probably the most experienced of the new heavyweights but I'm only 22. Among the prospects I think I'm the most grounded professional. I'm not including David Haye, I don't measure myself there, I'm on about the other up and coming people. They've all been fed dead bodies, but I've had much sterner tests and I think that's benefitted me in the long run.

Thanks for your time and we've a free £50 bet for a favourite charity.

That can go to the Rhys Daniels Trust - I've just come back from La Cala in Spain where I played in the Max Clifford golf tournament to support the charity. My golf wasn't its 'A' game, I've only played twice in 18 months, but it was great fun. And as for my bet, I'll follow the market and back Wladimir Klitschko to win inside the distance at [2.34].

*Tyson Fury fights Dereck Chisora for the British and Commonwealth Heavyweight titles on July 23 at Wembley Arena. Ring Wembley Arena 24hr box office on 0844 815 0815 or go to www.wembleyarena.co.uk

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The Betfair Poker Interview: Jesse May (1 of 2)

Poker News / Short-Stacked Shamus / 01 April 2011 / Leave a Comment

When it comes to poker-themed novels, Jesse May's Shut Up and Deal (1998) stands out as an especially accomplished entry in the genre, a book that brings alive the unique and fascinating world of the cash-game grinder of the mid-1990s.

In Shut Up and Deal May's narrator, a young poker pro named Mickey, relates in episodic fashion the story of his ongoing struggles both at the tables and elsewhere, exploring in detail the many challenges faced by himself and others as they all separately strive to "stay in action." Full of memorable characters and set pieces, I highly recommend May's novel as both an entertaining read and an insightful exploration of poker's many highs and lows.

In addition to his poker writing, May is well known for his contributions as a commentator on numerous poker shows, a role that has earned him the nickname "the Voice of Poker." For May that career began shortly after the publication of Shut Up and Deal with the first season of "Late Night Poker" (in 1999), a show that would come to have great influence on televised poker a few years later with the launching of the World Poker Tour and expansion of coverage of the World Series of Poker on ESPN.

I recently had the opportunity to talk with May about both Shut Up and Deal and the early years of "Late Night Poker." This week I'll share the first part of our conversation in which we focused on May's novel, and next week will present the story of his involvement with "Late Night Poker."

Short-Stacked Shamus: I know Shut Up and Deal is based somewhat on your own experiences playing poker in the late '80s and '90s. To what extent is Mickey's story comparable to your own?

Jesse May: First of all, the story is true in the sense that I think truth is stranger than fiction. When I was writing it, I wasn't worried about it being true, but I think that when it comes to a lot of gambling stories, you find that you could never make this stuff up. That's been the case, I think, for every moment I've been in the gambling world.

Like Mickey, I did start playing when I was in high school. With a couple of other guys we all got obsessed with poker at the same time, then went out to Las Vegas -- four of us, all underage, like 17 or 18 -- and there discovered Texas hold'em (limit). Soon after that it became kind of a more serious thing for me. I used to go to Las Vegas quite a bit, spending summers there trying to play poker. I dropped out of college twice, and after I turned 21 I ended up in Vegas and really tried to make a go of it.

Obviously it was during that poker explosion, and so as far as the places in the book go, they did kind of coincide with where I was. I spent a lot of time in Las Vegas. I was at Foxwoods within a month after they opened up [in 1992] and stayed there the better part of a year. I was in Atlantic City the very day they opened poker [in 1993], and stayed there about a year-and-a-half. Those were really interesting times as far as poker goes, because it was so new. There was no internet, obviously, back then, and all the action was there. I think the world had never seen anything like those two major openings -- Atlantic City and Foxwoods.

SSS: In a way the novel kind of chronicles this interesting and important moment for poker. For a lot of people who only came into poker post-Moneymaker, they might not realize how significant that earlier "explosion" really was.

JM: That's true. Also, it was interesting... at the time there were some poker texts, but most people really didn't have access to them. So it was a combination of there being so few people who played poker -- not even well but just marginally -- and there being so much money around.

It was incredible, because it required such a different skill set to become a poker player then -- a professional -- than it does today. The skill sets then were really about money management and surviving in that hustling type of world rather than sitting around talking about hands. People didn't sit around and talk strategy then. You talked about who was cheating and who owed you money and that kind of stuff (laughs). And I loved that world, and so for me it was a great time.

SSS: The world you are describing really had much more in common with what was the case before -- even stretching back to the 19th century -- than what the poker world has become over the last decade.

JM: It's true. I look at a guy like Amarillo Slim [Preston]. You know -- throw out all the personal controversies that he has had -- people have been very critical of his game, saying that he's essentially not a poker player. And to some extent that's true, but the fact is that in his time, and even when I would play with him a little bit back at Foxwoods, he was representative of a guy who was a great professional as far as poker went. Because he knew everything else. He knew how to get a game together, how to get an edge... he knew all that stuff. And I always had a lot of respect for him.

It was people like that -- like the Bart Stone character [in Shut Up and Deal] -- who really were able to thrive back then, and who wouldn't be thriving now. And it really was, as you're saying, the tail end of that era where that sort of "road gambler" was able to succeed.

SSS: How did you come to decide to write a novel about this world you were experiencing?

JM: The book itself was written as a catharsis, really. Back when I was playing, you got such a strong response from people when they found out you were playing poker. You kind of continually felt yourself defending your lifestyle to others and to yourself and trying to make order of it.

I used to take a lot of breaks when I played poker, and this particular time when I had the first crack at writing the novel, I had been playing in Atlantic City and took off nine months to travel in Asia. It was during that period I wrote the bones of the novel, writing every day.

SSS: So the places and chronology of the novel roughly correspond to your own experiences. The characters -- Bart Stone, John Smiley, Uptown Raoul -- I assume they, too, are somewhat based on people you knew and with whom you played?

JM: Yes. Actually there were some liability issues with the publisher that made it very important for me to go through and change certain things -- ethnicities, physical qualities, names, things like that. But a lot of times [with a given character] there was some person I had in mind, and sometimes characters were compilations of different people.

The Bart Stone character, for example, was probably as close to real as you could get [i.e., with regard to the person on whom he was based]. He was such a strong personality, you couldn't exaggerate him. His life was so amazing... he really was one of the true road gamblers. He was a guy who had a church-going wife and completely lived this sort of "picket fence" existence for three weeks out of every month, then for one week he'd get into his car to some town -- just start driving -- and find a town, find a game, and find a way to get the money.

He had this saying. He said he'd go into a town and first he'd try and beat people on the square. If that didn't work, he'd try and cheat them. And if that didn't work, he'd just pull out a gun and rob the motherf*ckers. That was his philosophy of life!

SSS: You actually start the novel with Bart Stone -- with a sketch of his character and telling the story of him cheating others. It's interesting, because I think by starting the book that way you kind of indirectly introduce Mickey as a contrasting figure -- a "good" guy, that is, who looks at Bart and expresses a kind of awe because he could never live that way. But then he weirdly admires Bart, too. And Mickey, as we come to find out, isn't without flaws himself.

JM: I guess it's kind of flattering to hear you say that. You know, I recently just read Vicky Coren's book. I don't know if you've read that.

SSS: Oh, yes -- For Richer, For Poorer [reviewed here]. It's terrific.

JM: Yes, I quite like it, too. And I think the reason I like it so much is that unlike a lot of these "tell-all" poker books or whatever they are, Vicky never tries to make herself into sort of an elite. She throws herself in with the poker players -- they are her peers, and she's not trying to pretend that she's not as bad or as good or as sick or as addicted or anything as any of them. And I always thought that was kind of important in the poker world as far as keeping your own order together was concerned -- that if you do think you're different or better than everyone else, at least recognize that you're a hypocrite (laughs)!

One of the things about poker, especially back then, is that you are faced with so many moral choices. I think that's what excited me about the story more than anything else. Just because of poker's nature, the decisions that you have to make every day... you are constantly testing out your own morality. And other people's, too. You find out a lot about what lengths they'll go to, what depths they'll sink to, really who they are as a person. Poker reveals so much about people's personalities because the ethical dilemmas -- the gray areas -- they come so fast and furious.

SSS: There are several themes present in the novel. One seems to be the way people tend to view poker either realistically or they romanticize it -- that there's a "reality" of poker that some get, and there's a "romance" about the game that others prefer to see.

JM: I'll buy that.

SSS: A related theme in the book -- and this is interesting because you've already used this phrase a couple of times with regard to the writing of the novel -- is this idea of "making order" of your life. Mickey is constantly trying to do that himself in the book, and struggling, at times, between being "realistic" and being "romantic" about his life as a full-time poker player.

JM: I think that for people who play poker professionally today, that "order" is so much more readily available. And it's an order that is very similar for all of them. They've identified profitable ways to play, mistakes their opponents make, and all of the numbers involved that they can see with the tracking software and things like that -- the order is there. I think it was much harder before. But believe me, [players today] still have a lot of chaos in their lives, because the nature of poker and gambling is obviously based on the streaks of winning and losing. That stuff throws off your sense of balance.

Then there's the "moral" order of setting up rules for yourself, which obviously is a whole other thing. The order of believing that what you're doing is the right thing to be doing. To me that's always been the major theme of gambling -- not just poker -- that you're always making up new rules for yourself. Maybe it's like that in life, too, you know, something works for a while and then something throws it off and you have to go back to the drawing board. But it's very important for people to have a sense of order, and I agree that's something that Mickey struggles with in the book. As everybody in the poker world does.

SSS: Okay, one last question about the novel. What writers -- poker and otherwise -- would you list as ones you admire and might consider as having influenced you when writing Shut Up and Deal?

JM: As far as poker writers are concerned, I love Al Alvarez, of course. And Jon Bradshaw, I love the way he profiles people in Fast Company. Also, Damon Runyon, to me, is one of the great writers of all time when it comes to creating the characters of gambling. I feel like he is so underappreciated, although now that I think about it I probably never read any Runyon before I wrote the book. And Mario Puzo's Fools Die...

SSS: You allude to that one in Shut Up and Deal.

JM: Oh, that's right. You know Puzo was a big gambler. To me, Fools Die was the greatest book on Vegas that had ever been written. There are a couple of scenes in there in which he describes Vegas that I think heavily influenced me.

For other [non-gambling] stories, I used to read Somerset Maugham quite a bit. I love storytellers who are happy to tell the details they want to tell, you know? Writers like Hemingway or Djuna Barnes... who show that it doesn't have to be a [linear] sort of narrative where you say "he said" and then "she said" but that you can just relate what strikes you about people. I always felt like that at the poker table, but essentially there you are just watching people, which I love to do.

Much thanks to Jesse May for taking the time. You can order a copy of Shut Up and Deal online at Amazon or Amazon UK. To find out what May is up to currently, check out his excellent podcast, The Poker Show. And come back next week for more with May regarding the early years of "Late Night Poker."

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Gary Speed Big Interview: We'll be going out to beat England

The Big Interview / Gary Speed / 21 March 2011 / Leave a Comment

Tough job. Gary Speed looks on during his first match in charge of Wales, a defeat to the Republic of Ireland

"It’s great to have somebody like Gareth (Bale) involved, but it is a team game. If we are going to achieve anything it has to be as a team because we are a country of small resources."

We went out and spoke to former betting.betfair columnist Gary Speed on life without Ryan Giggs, where Gareth Bale ranks amongst the best in the world and gunning for a big scalp on Saturday.

Hi Gary. So three months since you took over and finally a competitive game! Excited, or does it feel like a job now?

Yes, I am excited, but also there's a lot of work gone into those three months. We've had one match, of course, in Ireland and although the result was disappointing, we found out a lot of things off the pitch.

Such as?

We only had one day's training, and five of them couldn't join in because they'd played the day before, but I got good feedback about the squad in terms of togetherness, structure, and how to use time.

So now it's time to make that work against England. It's a perfect first home fixture, isn't it?

I think so. We're realistic in that given our standing in the group after losing the first three matches, even if we win every game we still might not qualify. So the aim is to look ahead to the next campaign, and make sure by the time it starts we are in a place to compete. All the structure and foundations have got to be done and dusted by that time. But meanwhile it's England, at home, and a great opportunity to do something. We'll be going out to win it.

Do you miss the hustle and bustle of club management?

You'd be surprised the amount of work there is in this job. When I took over I felt it was important we set up a structure throughout the whole of Welsh football, from the senior team through the Under 21s and right down, so we are getting some sort of continuity. I've also been getting out to watch a lot of games, to see the players, and also out to their to speak to their managers and coaching staffs on how they do things. When they do come to us it helps understand how to get them in the right shape and frame of mind to perform.

Lots of detail, then?

That's exactly the difference compared to a club job. You have time to drill into every detail. We've watched the DVD of the Ireland game a lot of times, and a lot of analysis gets done on the opposition too. It's a time of the season where a lot of players have played a lot of games, so you can't take too much out of them on the training pitch. It's a case of planning the time to get the best value..

Wales have had problems with big players not being available. What are you doing to help change that?

I think what we learned from the first squad is that players want to come to an international team and find a bit of structure. They want a goal, and something to strive for. That's what we are trying to give them. It's already been encouraging that a couple of lads have returned to be available again in Danny Collins and Danny Gabbidon, so hopefully that will stand us in good stead for the future.

We saw a young lad playing the other night called Giggs who might have a chance!

(laughs) Yes, I've spoken to Ryan and it's not right for him to come back which I completely accept and understand, but he has been very supportive. It's fantastic how well he's doing for United still. I'm realistic in any case that while this game is exciting, the bigger picture is still the next qualifying campaign.

Fabio Capello says Gareth Bale is the best player in the world at the moment. Is he right?

He's not played for a few weeks, so I don't know, but we all saw his performances against Inter Milan, which were unbelievable. But then I've been watching Wales for four or five years and he's been the best player all that time. When he starts playing well for Tottenham on the Champions League stage it is no surprise to me that everybody is talking about him. It's great to have somebody like Gareth involved, but it is a team game. If we are going to achieve anything it has to be as a team because we are a country of small resources.

Who are the younger players you want to work with?

It would be unfair to name names, but part of why I was so keen to take the job is that there is such a lot of talent coming through.

Aaron Ramsey's an obvious example.

Given the injury he had he's come back very quickly. He was outstanding in some of the games I saw him play for Cardiff on loan, and I'm certainly hoping he can be in good shape to face England.

Who have you talked to for advice?

I've spoken to a lot of people: Mark Hughes, Sam Allardyce, Tony Pulis who is a good friend of mine. You take advice from everyone and then decide which way to go yourself. At the end of it you have to make the tough decisions, and you need to know you did what you believed in.

Now the boots are hung up you can finally assess your playing days. What would be your best memory?

I think winning the League with Leeds. It came very early in my career. In a few years of getting in the team I'd won the old Second Division, come fourth in the First and then lifted the title and the Charity Shield. I maybe didn't appreciate it as much as I should.

And your greatest regret?

I don't think I've got one. I can look back on a fabulous time - after the Leeds days there was Newcastle, Bolton and Sheffield United. Newcastle especially was a massive highlight. Kenny Dalglish signed me. He was a hero of mine when I was a kid. They say you shouldn't meet your heroes, it's sometimes a disappointment. Mine were Kenny Dalglish and Ian Botham and I've met them both and they are both great people. I've been very lucky.

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